George's new cargos [aborted] Use ECS instead

Discuss, get help with, or post new graphics for TTDPatch and OpenTTD, using the NewGRF system, here. Graphics for plain TTD also acceptable here.

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How should the building look it transperent mode

as the ground part with the above part in grey (default behaviour)
14
21%
there should be a text with cargo name over the ground part (English only)
15
22%
there should be an icon of the cargo over the ground part
38
56%
other (specify please)
1
1%
 
Total votes: 68

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Post by Aegir »

George wrote:
Aegir wrote:Okay, I've played around a bit more, and I've noticed that yes, Hotel "Pribaltiskaya" does show up, but hotel "Zvon" and "Praha"do not.
Do you mean that they do not appear in your cities? Send me the save
This is with scenario editor, I can get the Pribaltiskaya to show up further on the edges of town, but no matter how many cities I create or how big I cannot get them to show up. Even destroying parts of cities and rebuilding them I cannot get any to show up.
Aegir wrote:Praha is understandable, still working on the graphics
You working on the graphics? Do you have suggestions?
No, I think I didnt state that right, I thought it was left out because you were still working on it. I think the graphics look perfect now.
Aegir wrote:Also I've noticed that when the grand hotel finally does appear, it is very far out from the center of town, almost looks out of place.
it SHOULD be in zone 1 (that is far from the city centre in big towns). It is located this way in SPb (Subway station Primorskaya, where Hotel Pribaltiskaya is, is the end station on line 3).
Oh, ok. I did not know that. I thought that it would of been closer to the city center.

I will try re-downloading your set and see if that helps.
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Post by George »

Aegir wrote:
George wrote:
Aegir wrote:Okay, I've played around a bit more, and I've noticed that yes, Hotel "Pribaltiskaya" does show up, but hotel "Zvon" and "Praha"do not.
Do you mean that they do not appear in your cities? Send me the save
This is with scenario editor, I can get the Pribaltiskaya to show up further on the edges of town, but no matter how many cities I create or how big I cannot get them to show up. Even destroying parts of cities and rebuilding them I cannot get any to show up.
They are year depended. May be that make the sence. What is the start year of your scenario?
Aegir wrote:
Aegir wrote:Praha is understandable, still working on the graphics
You working on the graphics? Do you have suggestions?
No, I think I didnt state that right, I thought it was left out because you were still working on it. I think the graphics look perfect now.
It is in, I'll update it when I change it
Aegir wrote:
Aegir wrote:Also I've noticed that when the grand hotel finally does appear, it is very far out from the center of town, almost looks out of place.
it SHOULD be in zone 1 (that is far from the city centre in big towns). It is located this way in SPb (Subway station Primorskaya, where Hotel Pribaltiskaya is, is the end station on line 3).
Oh, ok. I did not know that. I thought that it would of been closer to the city center.
Many big hotels here are located outside the city centre. Like hotels Pulkovskaya, Pribaltiskaya and others.
Aegir wrote:I will try re-downloading your set and see if that helps.
I'll finish one more hore hotel in a day or two.
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Post by Aegir »

George wrote:
Aegir wrote:
George wrote:Do you mean that they do not appear in your cities? Send me the save
This is with scenario editor, I can get the Pribaltiskaya to show up further on the edges of town, but no matter how many cities I create or how big I cannot get them to show up. Even destroying parts of cities and rebuilding them I cannot get any to show up.
They are year depended. May be that make the sence. What is the start year of your scenario?
Hmm, I've tried many different years periods, Im doing some coding modifications to TTRS, and so I build hundreds of large cities in different time periods to watch how they grow. I keep noticing the lack of the hotels Zvon and Praha in almost any time-period, which I noticed as strange since every other building shows up fine (The statues, the grand hotel)

The main years I always test are 1930, 1940, 1955, 1960, 1965, 1975, 1985, 1995, and anywhere 2000 onwards (Sets usually dont get picky around then).

I've noticed that I can always get the grand hotel at the year its supposed to, but I can never get the other two to ever show up in any cities I build.

Im sorry I dont have any saves or scenarios to show you, its a bit hard to try and demonstrate like this.

Ill try without any newhouses sets active, but I dont think that will have any difference.
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Post by George »

The new hotel. Comments are welcome
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Post by Szappy »

George wrote:The new hotel. Comments are welcome
Can you show a picture of the original?
IMHO the red is a bit too harsh. Otherwise it looks quite nice.
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Post by George »

Szappy wrote:
George wrote:The new hotel. Comments are welcome
Can you show a picture of the original?
IMHO the red is a bit too harsh. Otherwise it looks quite nice.
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Post by George »

Aegir wrote:
George wrote:
Aegir wrote:This is with scenario editor, I can get the Pribaltiskaya to show up further on the edges of town, but no matter how many cities I create or how big I cannot get them to show up. Even destroying parts of cities and rebuilding them I cannot get any to show up.
They are year depended. May be that make the sence. What is the start year of your scenario?
Hmm, I've tried many different years periods, Im doing some coding modifications to TTRS, and so I build hundreds of large cities in different time periods to watch how they grow. I keep noticing the lack of the hotels Zvon and Praha in almost any time-period, which I noticed as strange since every other building shows up fine (The statues, the grand hotel) The main years I always test are 1930, 1940, 1955, 1960, 1965, 1975, 1985, 1995, and anywhere 2000 onwards (Sets usually don’t get picky around then).
I've noticed that I can always get the grand hotel at the year its supposed to, but I can never get the other two to ever show up in any cities I build. I’m sorry I don’t have any saves or scenarios to show you, its a bit hard to try and demonstrate like this. I’ll try without any new houses sets active, but I don’t think that will have any difference.
I can not reproduce your problem. I've tried to place new towns in a new scenario (started in 1950) and got both the Zvon and Praha hotels.
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Post by SHADOW-XIII »

George wrote:
Szappy wrote:
George wrote:The new hotel. Comments are welcome
Can you show a picture of the original?
IMHO the red is a bit too harsh. Otherwise it looks quite nice.
I'm missing the small roof on the left :wink: maybe you could try to shrink (and smaller in height) hotel graphic and put there that roof
what are you looking at? it's a signature!
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Post by Sanchimaru »

SHADOW-XIII wrote:
George wrote:
Szappy wrote:Can you show a picture of the original?
IMHO the red is a bit too harsh. Otherwise it looks quite nice.
I'm missing the small roof on the left :wink: maybe you could try to shrink (and smaller in height) hotel graphic and put there that roof
?

And lose all the dimension fitting just to have a plain white piece that is doing nothing there? That building is already in scale; you can't just go and reduce it.

The building looks good enough to me. If you want to soften the red, you can try merging it a bit with the smoother tones of red, but I think it's ok as it is.
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Post by Aegir »

George wrote:
Aegir wrote:
George wrote:They are year depended. May be that make the sence. What is the start year of your scenario?
Hmm, I've tried many different years periods, Im doing some coding modifications to TTRS, and so I build hundreds of large cities in different time periods to watch how they grow. I keep noticing the lack of the hotels Zvon and Praha in almost any time-period, which I noticed as strange since every other building shows up fine (The statues, the grand hotel) The main years I always test are 1930, 1940, 1955, 1960, 1965, 1975, 1985, 1995, and anywhere 2000 onwards (Sets usually don’t get picky around then).
I've noticed that I can always get the grand hotel at the year its supposed to, but I can never get the other two to ever show up in any cities I build. I’m sorry I don’t have any saves or scenarios to show you, its a bit hard to try and demonstrate like this. I’ll try without any new houses sets active, but I don’t think that will have any difference.
I can not reproduce your problem. I've tried to place new towns in a new scenario (started in 1950) and got both the Zvon and Praha hotels.
Okay, thanks for your help. The problem must be localized then.

And great work with that new hotel, looks quite dashing!
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Post by habell »

George wrote:The new hotel. Comments are welcome
The hotel looks great! :shock:
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Post by Wile E. Coyote »

Everything is great :D except letters on roof. They are too violet, just little "redish" them.
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Post by Patchman »

George, in the next version of your cargo set, you should make sure to set tourists to be in cargo class 0 (i.e. cargo prop 16 set to 01 00). This way, they'll appear at bus stations and not truck stations from a59 on.
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Post by George »

Patchman wrote:George, in the next version of your cargo set, you should make sure to set tourists to be in cargo class 0 (i.e. cargo prop 16 set to 01 00). This way, they'll appear at bus stations and not truck stations from a59 on.
And why should it be 01 00? As I understand the wiki, it should be 05 00, isn't it? And petrol should be 44 00?

Wiki says

Code: Select all

To make vehicle sets more compatible with future new cargo definitions, these two properties allow vehicles to define what type of cargo they should be refittable to. A wagon will be refittable to all cargo types that match the classes set in prop. 28 except for the ones that match the classes set in prop. 29. In addition, afterwards those cargo types listed in prop. 1D will be toggled. In terms of logic, it is
Refit list = (cargos from prop. 28 AND NOT cargos from prop. 29) XOR cargos from prop. 1D
This means, if a cargo type is in the list because it matches prop. 28 but not prop 29, having the respective bit set in prop. 1D will disable it again. Conversely, if the cargo type is not in the list, the bit in prop. 1D will add it. This way, if props. 28/29 are unset, prop. 1D will retain the original meaning, but it is still able to selectively add or remove certain cargo types even if props. 28/29 are used.
As a consequence, you have both full control over the cargo types that you know of (using prop. 1D), and those you don't know of yet (using props. 28/29). Leave the bits for cargos that you don't know of unset in prop. 1D, and set/clear the bits for known cargos to add/remove them from the list as appropriate.
The class list is a bit mask, with the following bits defined so far:
Bit	Value	Cargo classes
0	1	Passengers
1	2	Mail
2	4	Express cargo (Goods, Food, Candy)
3	8	Armoured cargo (Valuables/Gold/Diamonds)
4	10	Bulk freight (Coal, Grain etc., Ore, Fruit)
5	20	Piece goods (Livestock, Wood, Steel, Paper)
6	40	Liquids (Oil, Water, Rubber)
7	80	Refrigerated cargo (Food, Fruit)
Note that cargo types may belong to several classes. This is the reason for making two properties, an additive and a subtractive one, because this way a vehicle can be specified to be refittable to, for example, all express cargo that does not require refrigeration (i.e., from the default cargos, no food).
For the cargo types added in this way, the vehicle will probably have no specific graphics (in action 3) to show the cargo load. In this case, the default will be used, which should therefore be sufficiently generic-looking if possible.
And one more question. Now any long vehicle is refitted to any cargo (because all the variants have the same ID for ID saving). Would it be possible to specify, that for known cargos (that are in the list in action 03) vehicles are refitted as intended, and for unknown cargos the refit would be defined on class (oil tankers for liquid cargos, box goods van for express cargos, containers for piece cargo and so on)?
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Post by Patchman »

George wrote:
Patchman wrote:George, in the next version of your cargo set, you should make sure to set tourists to be in cargo class 0 (i.e. cargo prop 16 set to 01 00). This way, they'll appear at bus stations and not truck stations from a59 on.
And why should it be 01 00? As I understand the wiki, it should be 05 00, isn't it? And petrol should be 44 00?
They aren't "express cargo", they're a sort of passenger. Maybe I should rename "express cargo" to "express freight" to clarify its intention. I don't think adding any other classes other than class 0 is a good idea for passengers-like cargos. Petrol sounds right though, if it's really an express cargo (which I'm not sure whether it should be... petrol doesn't spoil any faster than crude oil.)
Would it be possible to specify, that for known cargos (that are in the list in action 03) vehicles are refitted as intended, and for unknown cargos the refit would be defined on class (oil tankers for liquid cargos, box goods van for express cargos, containers for piece cargo and so on)?
Yes of course, that's the whole point of the exercise. You set the cargo classes first, and then change the specific cargo types you're not happy with using the old prop. 1D.
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Post by George »

Patchman wrote:
George wrote:
Patchman wrote:George, in the next version of your cargo set, you should make sure to set tourists to be in cargo class 0 (i.e. cargo prop 16 set to 01 00). This way, they'll appear at bus stations and not truck stations from a59 on.
And why should it be 01 00? As I understand the wiki, it should be 05 00, isn't it? And petrol should be 44 00?
They aren't "express cargo", they're a sort of passenger. Maybe I should rename "express cargo" to "express freight" to clarify its intention. I don't think adding any other classes other than class 0 is a good idea for passengers-like cargos. Petrol sounds right though, if it's really an express cargo (which I'm not sure whether it should be... petrol doesn't spoil any faster than crude oil.)
Petrol is dangerous cargo, and dangerous cargos have a priority here (to decrease the chance of explosion it a town). I think in Europe they have it too.
Patchman wrote:
Would it be possible to specify, that for known cargos (that are in the list in action 03) vehicles are refitted as intended, and for unknown cargos the refit would be defined on class (oil tankers for liquid cargos, box goods van for express cargos, containers for piece cargo and so on)?
Yes of course, that's the whole point of the exercise. You set the cargo classes first, and then change the specific cargo types you're not happy with using the old prop. 1D.
Then, what shoud I specify in action 03? For example, I have

Code: Select all

 1220 * 6	 07 83 01 03 00 01
 1221 * 52	 03 01 01 12 0F 01 1E 00 02 2F 00 03 3F 00 04 4F 00 05 5D 00 06 6F 00 07 7F 00 08 8F 00 09 9F 00 0A AE 00 1B CF 00 0C BF 00 11 BF 00 12 EE 00 1E 3E 00 F1 00
How I can specify to use 3F 00 for all the liquid cargos that are not in the list (03, 12, 1e)
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Post by DaleStan »

You use a set of default sprites that is sufficiently generic, just like the wiki says to do.
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Post by George »

DaleStan wrote:You use a set of default sprites that is sufficiently generic, just like the wiki says to do.
I read that page. But could not understand the rule. Could you make me the example?
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Post by DaleStan »

You can't know what the exact cargo type for the unknown climate-independent cargo IDs are, so you just use something generic.

Code: Select all

-1*4  01 01 04 03
//sprites for Oil
//sprites for water
//sprites for unknown
-1*9  02 01 00 01 01 00 00 00 00
-1*9  02 01 01 01 01 01 00 01 00
-1*9  02 01 02 01 01 02 00 02 00
-1*13 03 01 01 01 02 03 03 00 0F 01 00 02 00
For RVs, it should be pretty easy to find out what class(es) the current cargo is a memeber of, just check the appropriate bit(s) of var 42. (NFORenum won't like you for that, though.) I'm not quite sure what's going to happen when the ninth cargo class gets defined.
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Post by George »

DaleStan wrote:You can't know what the exact cargo type for the unknown climate-independent cargo IDs are, so you just use something generic.

Code: Select all

-1*4  01 01 04 03
//sprites for Oil
//sprites for water
//sprites for unknown
-1*9  02 01 00 01 01 00 00 00 00
-1*9  02 01 01 01 01 01 00 01 00
-1*9  02 01 02 01 01 02 00 02 00
-1*13 03 01 01 01 02 03 03 00 0F 01 00 02 00
It would be Ok if I define tanker truck. But I define a truck for all cargos. So, unknown cargo can be a tanker, a box van, a dumper or other.
DaleStan wrote:For RVs, it should be pretty easy to find out what class(es) the current cargo is a memeber of, just check the appropriate bit(s) of var 42. (NFORenum won't like you for that, though.) I'm not quite sure what's going to happen when the ninth cargo class gets defined.
Do the var 42 work for RVs? If yes, then cargo ID 02 from your sample should be a chek for var 42.
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