New Patch: Speed Signs
Moderator: OpenTTD Developers
FIRST I like this patch.
SECOND I like the idea of hertogjan with 2 trianles (1 pointing up, the other down) and a square sign.
THIRD About the colours I have absolutely NO idea how to link a colour to a speed limit (preferred would be for me: red - slow, yellow - medium, green - fast. But this produces trouble with colourblind people as mentioned earlier). Would there be a way to have the entrance signal to these different speed lines to be the speed indicator for this line at the same time by equipping the sign to the signals pole? Sometimes <edit> but very seldom </edit> in germany I see signals on tracks wich also have a sign mounted to the pole. But I have NO idea what these signs are for...
SECOND I like the idea of hertogjan with 2 trianles (1 pointing up, the other down) and a square sign.
THIRD About the colours I have absolutely NO idea how to link a colour to a speed limit (preferred would be for me: red - slow, yellow - medium, green - fast. But this produces trouble with colourblind people as mentioned earlier). Would there be a way to have the entrance signal to these different speed lines to be the speed indicator for this line at the same time by equipping the sign to the signals pole? Sometimes <edit> but very seldom </edit> in germany I see signals on tracks wich also have a sign mounted to the pole. But I have NO idea what these signs are for...
moe moe pipebomb
like traffic lightsCharlyHRO wrote:.... About the colours ... (preferred would be for me: red - slow, yellow - medium, green - fast...
perhaps like that? http://www.stellwerke.de/signal/deutsch/lf.htmlCharlyHRO wrote:.... in germany I see signals on tracks wich also have a sign mounted to the pole. But I have NO idea what these signs are for...
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- lf1.gif (5.2 KiB) Viewed 8390 times
The flat triangle shape in the last post is good for real life, but the details would be way too small in the game. I have experimented with the .grf egladil put together, and the full face triangle looks good, so Im sure the pyramids will look even better.MeusH wrote:Now, onto the graphics and shapes. What do you think about these (look some posts above)?
Is color contrast too small? Or the shape is bad?
I really like your first speedsignals3 version with the three coloured pyramids. As I said on IRC, Im open to being convinced about the upside-down pyramid and small cube.
One small item: can you chop about 2-3 pixels off the pole height. Currently, it is just high enough to obscure a reverse face signal placed behind it.
Once I have a new grf file, I will create a few screenshots of how they look in-game. Im really really pleased with the look so far. Once we finalise the .grf, I will make a full release... its ready - it just needs the grf.
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Or as they were described by the robot in Short Circuit:BeSt-Com wrote:like traffic lightsCharlyHRO wrote:.... About the colours ... (preferred would be for me: red - slow, yellow - medium, green - fast...
Red - STOP
Green - GO
Amber - GO VERY FAST
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Don't make them blue. As far as I know, blue is used for a lot of things other than speed signs. For instance, to show where a train should stop (along a platform). The same sort of blue is also used on road signs to denote parking (or more often: with a cross through it, to denote where not to park).
It is difficult to pick colours, especially with all these opinions:hertogjan wrote:Don't make them blue. As far as I know, blue is used for a lot of things other than speed signs. For instance, to show where a train should stop (along a platform). The same sort of blue is also used on road signs to denote parking (or more often: with a cross through it, to denote where not to park).
Green: GO (as in red/yellow/green), but close to grass colour is bad.
Brown: Will merge with terrain on SubArctic.
White: Will merge with terrain on SubArctic.
Grey: Dull, and will merge on SubArctic
Red: too much like a DANGER! Impassable sign
Blue: not used for speed signs IRL
Orange: may merge with terrain on Tropical
Yellow: may not stand out too well
Black: may not show detail well
Purple/Pink: I dont "do" purple and pink
I strongly prefer the Bright Green (it shows up well on temperate grass, and I like the association with "Go for it"), Bright Orange (shows up well on all terrains, a good middle colour not used elsewhere in the game for trackside items, and associates well with "warm"; a medium temperature), Bright Blue (shows up well on all, associated with "cold", so to me a good association for SLOW).
As with many of these things, you cant please all the people all of the time. However, it is a plain .grf (not newgrf), so if someone wants to customise their own symbols, they will easily be able to modify the .grf file.
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- LordOfThePigs
- Route Supervisor
- Posts: 435
- Joined: 01 Jul 2004 10:28
- Location: Jura/Switzerland
In switzerland we have the signs attached below for temporary speed limitations (like when there is some work beeing done on the tracks). I think they look like they could be used in our case (I made the yellow one up).
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- This one doesn't exist, but it could be used for the medium speed tracks
- medium.png (3.18 KiB) Viewed 8294 times
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- This one means "slow down to a crawl" but could be used for the slow speed tracks
- slow.png (2.19 KiB) Viewed 8296 times
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- This ones means "full speed allowed" but could be used as the fast track signal
- fast.png (2.29 KiB) Viewed 8294 times
Sometimes I'm told "Brilliant"...
Sometimes I'm told "Charming"...
And Often I'm told "Shut Up"!
Sometimes I'm told "Charming"...
And Often I'm told "Shut Up"!
No, sorry, not like that. If I'm right I saw such a signal at the end of a station platform. It was a normal signal but there was a sign mounted at the pole of the signal. It could be a speed-limit-sign because the next station isn't far away but I'm not sure. I don't live near that station since 3 years.BeSt-Com wrote:perhaps like that? http://www.stellwerke.de/signal/deutsch/lf.htmlCharlyHRO wrote:.... in germany I see signals on tracks wich also have a sign mounted to the pole. But I have NO idea what these signs are for...
moe moe pipebomb
Nice, but I want to think 3D objects rather than a flat sign. A flat sign on our graphics doesnt show up strongly enough when seen edge on, and of course, from behind you see the back of the sign.LordOfThePigs wrote:In switzerland we have the signs attached below for temporary speed limitations (like when there is some work beeing done on the tracks). I think they look like they could be used in our case (I made the yellow one up).
I think the tetrahedron is quite distinct, and will not be confused with anything else (which is important when an area can be swarming with signals).
I dont expect these signs to be used all over the place. You only need one at the start of a section of track to weight the pathfinding.
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- LordOfThePigs
- Route Supervisor
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Here is a screenie using the graphic in the "And now" postMeusH wrote:And now?
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- I like them :) The circle shows how the speed sign does not overlap with signalling. If you switch signalling side, so does the speed sign. :)
- Dredburg Transport, 11th Jun 1959 #1.png (39.06 KiB) Viewed 8213 times
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Hmm - I miss signal 'track closed' that will behave as 'always red' signal, but this may be another feature request (maybe part of:)richk67 wrote:Red: too much like a DANGER! Impassable sign
IMO, to complete list there should be 'treshold signals', i.e. green if there are at least given number of greens behind, and 'counting' signals, i.e. signals that go red when #of green exit presignals is less or equal to #of combo presignals. (This can be used in station entrances...)Wolf01 wrote:signal that is red when there is no train and green when there is a train and a entrance/combo presignal that is red when at least one exit presignal is red
Or better thing will be 'inteligent signal', i.e. signal that has gui, where one can setup its behavior (and signalls on which will be this signal dependent).
In fact, the *only* time a train can pick an unpreferred track is when the entry signal to the preferred section is red. This is pretty rare in my tests, as you need to have the trains following pretty close behind each other. Of course, you can assist this by placing a short signal section early in the route, so that the route almost always has a green signal.Brianetta wrote:Interestingly, putting more green posts on a line increases the chances of a fast train using it, and decreases the chances of a slow train using it, to the extent that they'll hardly ever go the "wrong" way.
I will update the patch to add this functionality to npf.c. Currently it only works with the standard pathfinder.
I have had to save the settings in the save game, so unfortunately it will now suffer from the new "Saved Config must match" feature; ie. it will not load games not saved with the setting. (Im really not convinced that this info cannot be saved in a non-packed way - it is only a few parameters, and is only loaded once. Its not like adding an extra byte to the map array!)
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Version 4 of the signs. The cube one needs more work, IMO.
Also, I think the first two signs should be placed on regular tracks, and the last two should be placed on diagonal tracks, seen as | and - in TT world.
Please voice your suggestions, especially on shape and colours.
Edit: Added the early version of button image
Also, I think the first two signs should be placed on regular tracks, and the last two should be placed on diagonal tracks, seen as | and - in TT world.
Please voice your suggestions, especially on shape and colours.
Edit: Added the early version of button image
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- speedsignals4.png (1.9 KiB) Viewed 8115 times
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