OpenGFX - Graphics Base Set

[DanMacK]

Having some enhancements to the base game (a few more locos per climate, tenders, narrow gauge, electric rails, 2cc, trams, etc) would greatly enhance gameplay IMO. I can understand the need for a simple graphics replacementfor the moment, but for distribution purposs, I'd push for eventually including these features as part of the basic graphics avaialble with the game. It can still be kept simple for new players and yet semi-realistic.

Just my thoughts

[Zephyris]

Backward compatibility need not be lost - a specific colour within the cursor sprites, and the cursor sprites only, could be reconised as "transparent building". Could some of the special GUI reserved "magic pinks" be used for this? Ultimately, of course, it depends on how easy it would be to make the patch...

[DJ Nekkid]

Which reminds me, how easy is it to patch OpenTTD so it recognises if 2cc are present in the sprites for vehicles/stations/depots in trg1r.grf etc. and if present use it? It seemed simple to add 1cc support to the inner wall of the depot according to whether the sprite had cc present in it... 2cc in the default graphics would be great...

if "magic green" is added to the sprites, do i _think_ it only needs a action 0 prop 27 set to 02 in an "enhanced set" ... or similary if there is an added 2cc to the "plus set", but to keep same stats, i _think_ only action 0 + "12 FD 27 02 " is needed...

[orudge]

The problem with it is backward compatibility. OpenTTD should never ever loose the ability to use the TTD sprites. And IMO the only acceptable way is with 32bpp, where you can do such things in the sprite.

It may seem a bit of a kludge, but perhaps the best way forward, if the code cannot itself keep compatibility with standard TTD graphics, to have a "TTD pack" newgrf that reapplies all the original graphics?

[DeletedUser5]

Well I'm still learning, and I can't get working selectors from openttdw. Here is grf that should be fixed by somebody, that know how to do it.
Do not use it in game!
When tweaked version will be relased, please leave still as version 0.3

[DanMacK]

Well the goal here is to get away from using the original graphics files is it not? The object is to create a new graphics set, derived from the TTD sprites, influenced by them and resembling them for distribution with OTTD. That said, if the new graphics files are part of the actual Open TTD install and are designed to replace the TTD ones to avoid copyright issues, where exactly does the backwards compatibility part come in? Older versions will still require the TTD files, but a new version designed to use the Open graphics as opposed to the original graphics shouldn't need that. The new graphics won't be radically different from the originals, but they'll be an evolution of them.

OTTD has so many new features the original game never had. If we can take advantage of some of those features and create the basis for a game with much better gameplay, why not? I'm not saying go radically different with multiple livery overrides, 20 custom locos, 4 different loco liveries and such that A LOT of new graphics sets have. I'm saying simply adding a tender to a stema loco isn't a radical shift and it just "looks right"

Just my $0.02

[skidd13]

@DanMacK: I agree that we are different to the original, but I've got the idea in mind to offer the user the orignal GUI with it's limitations. The game get's more and more complex. IMO we should give the user the choise to reuse the old graphics (if he has got the game) or to use the new sprites. I knew people who prefer Patch, cause you can play it exactly like the original. Sure some parts will remain different, but the result will be verry similar.
Some people will prefer the orignal sprites cause it's a nice memory in their life, some don't.

@orudge: A NewGrf with the old sprites is IMO a bigger copyright issue than using them by the game code.

Edit: To be on topic again I attatch a small update of the cursors

[DJ Nekkid]

disable just about everything in ottd, and you are at ttd

[FooBar]

I think OTTD should *always* be compatible with the default TTD graphics. I do like the new graphics a lot, but I think that I in some point in time want to play a game or two with the original graphics. Old Skool.

TNT looks a lot better now in red!
Not sure about the buy land sign tho; seems a bit large.

[DJ Nekkid]

well, then what about a "newgrf" to just actionA the old grapics back into the game ... well, in this case perhaps an oldgrf

[FooBar]

Yes, exactly. For the main GRF, everything should be Action0A'd or Action05'd (possibly with a little help of Action07 for the different climates).

Apart from the main GRF, we should create an extended version. This NewGRF can include every possible action, to make it possible to include additional stuff, have livery overrides for vehicles, refittable wagons and the like.

Both GRFs should be distributed with OTTD. The main GRF active by default (else there would be no graphics!). (More advanced) players could then activate the extended GRF as they see fit.


For the more technical side of this:
OTTD could be distributed with blank trgxr.grf (thus eliminating the the copyrighted graphics). The main GRF will be enabled through the [newgrf-static] entry in openttd.cfg (what else would that entry be for?). The extended GRF will sit quietly in the data folder waiting until somebody enables it using the NewGRF Settings window.
This would also make it possible to use the default graphics; just replace the trgs with the originals!
Or something like that.

[richk67]

@7 of 9:

No can do. As has been suggested before it would be a severe violation of the copyright on the graphics to create a newgrf containing the original graphics just so they can map over the new OTTD set. It would be a blatant copy, that would then be distributed.

I thought the whole point of this exercise is to create a set of *NEW* graphics, inspired by the ideas of the originals. If you design a set to look like the originals, then it is a derivative work. However, if you think "I need a road graphic", draw a new one from that idea, and lo-and-behold it happens to look like the original roads, then that is OK, and would not breach copyright.

In other words:
If you say of a graphic "I tried to make it look like the originals", then its a derivative work.
If you say, "I needed an X. I drew an X from scratch", no problem.

AFAIC we should create a new single graphics file that is purely and *solely* a sprite table, as in fact trg1*.grf are. Any super new newgrf features, and newgrf replacements for openttdw.grf graphics should go in a mandatory loading newgrf.

Thus if you want the original sprites, you just use your trg1*.grf files exactly as you do today. New features should/must be kept separate.

IMO - for what its worth.

[edit]LOL Foobar - we wrote the same spiel pretty much.

[Zephyris]

I have to say I agree with FooBar and richk67...

[FooBar]

I also agree with richk67 and FooBar


Anyways...
I currently don't have much time to work on this project (or any other of my newgrf projects). Trying to study for my exams consumes a lot of time (as does taking those exams). Apart from that I have to create a website which needs to be done in about two weeks, and I still urgently need to update my own website
Don't think I bailed out of the project; I didn't. I'd really like to try and draw some foundations, but that has to wait now.
I'll try to keep up with the topic and give my opinion here and there

[Zephyris]

Well I'm afraid you can't have the foundations Foo Bar... They are now done! Or at least started...

newLandscape v0.2
All trees except cacti and toyland.
All foundations, including those in openttd.grf

[athanasios]

1. Even maintaining the same name as original grfs is copyright violation. If someone owns TTD and wants to use its graphics in OpenTTD he is violating the law. Not that I care-otherwise I wouldn't be playing this game, but we should discourage such behavior. It should be deep into documentation how to do this, if we keep compatibility. To avoid legal issues, the new grf we are making should have a different name and different number of sprites. So the additions are welcome in my opinion. Of course steam locomotives should have a tender. Of course there should be livery override for carriages that connect to a specific engine like TIM or AsiaStar. Of course temperate should have snow... There is a menu for difficulty settings in TTD. A new player can configure in a similar way what to activate and what to not activate. No need for extended extra-grf.

2. skidd13: Seems I was not clear, but you partially got the point. Let me say a few words:
a. I like the original style of TTD. I want to imitate it. I cannot have the same for legal issues. I draw something similar. OK, I say I draw something that accidentally looks similar to be legal.
b. We need a simple UI. This is a game, neither Office nor Photoshop. Ages who play it vary from preteens to pensioners with poor sight.
c. In original graphics the arrow for other tools is quite big, obstructing view.
d. I used an arrow combined with your box (which box is less obstructing than the original) as a less obstructing solution. You made a circle. The arrow I used, your circle or a crosshair are far less obstructing solutions than the damned original ugly arrow.
e. I prefer the gray color. Why? Unless rest of GUI doesn't change this color (buttons, windows) it is better not to change it in the cursors either. We have to get a consistent GUI. And I am somewhat Old School.

3. Inevitably many things have to change. This set is not made as a replacement for TTDPatch. It is solely for OpenTTD. (I do not mean that TTDPatch players are restricted from using it, they are free to use the parts that are compatible with Patch) but that new things belong here not in an extra grf.

Important: My mother is suffering from a serious sickness which she is patiently fighting for many years. Recently her health has deteriorated. She has no other close relatives, so the responsibility to take care of her lies on me. Medical system in this country is not ideal, and my mother is advanced in age. This means that I have to 'run' a lot. This will hinder my contribution to this project. Sometimes I 'll have time, sometimes not. I cut from other hobbies, because OpenTTD is my favorite. I have explained this to some members in PM, but since I am most active in this thread, I thought it was appropriate to post it here as well.

regards
athanasios

[bartpp7]

so out of 100% what would you guys say that how much is comepleted and out of only 100% and whe nis it going to be released like is there alpha and so on or do we just download the pack that have been released

[mph]

Have a read of the first couple of posts of the thread first. It tells you all about the project and points you towards downloads for all graphics contributed to the project. It also has links to the wiki page that tells you even more about it.

There are LOTS of sprites in TTD and I think someone posted a couple of pages back that possible replacements for 38% (or something) of temperate sprites had been. The figure is far less for the other climates. It is progressing fast and all completed work is available in the first post (or second)

[Mchl]

By now more than 40% of sprites from the original files have their replacements. One must remember, that apart from these original sprites, there are also some derivative sprites in openttd(w).grf which need replacing as well.
bartpp7: you can already download publsihed grfs and use new sprites in your games. Full list is in wiki and on the first page of this topic.

[FooBar]

1. Even maintaining the same name as original grfs is copyright violation. If someone owns TTD and wants to use its graphics in OpenTTD he is violating the law. Not that I care-otherwise I wouldn't be playing this game, but we should discourage such behavior. It should be deep into documentation how to do this, if we keep compatibility. To avoid legal issues, the new grf we are making should have a different name and different number of sprites. So the additions are welcome in my opinion. Of course steam locomotives should have a tender. Of course there should be livery override for carriages that connect to a specific engine like TIM or AsiaStar. Of course temperate should have snow... There is a menu for difficulty settings in TTD. A new player can configure in a similar way what to activate and what to not activate. No need for extended extra-grf.

This copyright stuff is nasty. I seriously should just buy the rights of the original TTD (so you could all pay me to use it ). Different name and different number of sprites should be not too much of a problem. For the extra GRF, I still think it's easier to have two seperate files. if(setting=active) {load extra grf} is a lot easier than if(setting=active) {load sprites a to b from grf} else {load sprites c to d}. The first method also allows easier extension of the extra grf, since no game code needs to be changed. I support activation through some settings window rather than the newgrf window.

Important: My mother is suffering from a serious sickness which she is patiently fighting for many years. Recently her health has deteriorated. She has no other close relatives, so the responsibility to take care of her lies on me. Medical system in this country is not ideal, and my mother is advanced in age. This means that I have to 'run' a lot. This will hinder my contribution to this project. Sometimes I 'll have time, sometimes not. I cut from other hobbies, because OpenTTD is my favorite. I have explained this to some members in PM, but since I am most active in this thread, I thought it was appropriate to post it here as well.

I'm so sorry to hear. We need you here, but obviously your mother needs you more. Take good care of her!