64 cargo types, more inputs and outputs on industries
Moderator: OpenTTD Developers
64 cargo types, more inputs and outputs on industries
Recently there's been work in the master branch of OTTD that increases the number of cargo types to 64. After some discussions on IRC we figured those additional cargo types would be much more exciting if industries could also consume and produce more cargo types each, instead of the historical limit of 3-in-2-out.
I started working on a patch that increases the number of slots on industries to 16 cargo types in and 16 out, here's the pull request on GitHub. There's also an analogous for town houses since you'd want to extend those as well.
Although most of the work happens on GitHub (and IRC), I'm making a thread here as well, since some interest was shown in the FIRS thread.
Descriptions of the proposed additions to NewGRF support are in the initial posts in each of the two pull requests.
Current status (August 1st) is that both features await more testing. I have made my own little NewGRF for testing, but it doesn't exercise any of the callback features.
Additionally, NML needs to be updated to understand the new features as well, so right now you can only use them by writing oldschool NFO files
There are some "obvious" callbacks for dynamically controlling per-tile acceptance that are not included in the patches. Constantly performing callbacks for this is quite expensive, and from a performance perspective, please don't depend on that. If you have a really really good use case, present it and maybe they'll come back!
I started working on a patch that increases the number of slots on industries to 16 cargo types in and 16 out, here's the pull request on GitHub. There's also an analogous for town houses since you'd want to extend those as well.
Although most of the work happens on GitHub (and IRC), I'm making a thread here as well, since some interest was shown in the FIRS thread.
Descriptions of the proposed additions to NewGRF support are in the initial posts in each of the two pull requests.
Current status (August 1st) is that both features await more testing. I have made my own little NewGRF for testing, but it doesn't exercise any of the callback features.
Additionally, NML needs to be updated to understand the new features as well, so right now you can only use them by writing oldschool NFO files
There are some "obvious" callbacks for dynamically controlling per-tile acceptance that are not included in the patches. Constantly performing callbacks for this is quite expensive, and from a performance perspective, please don't depend on that. If you have a really really good use case, present it and maybe they'll come back!
- SilverSurferZzZ
- Route Supervisor
- Posts: 468
- Joined: 29 Oct 2013 23:31
Re: 64 cargo types, more inputs and outputs on industries
The 64 cargo types, fabulous.
However, the 16 cargoes per industry...
In my opinion, it's unnecessary. It's going to be too complex for everyone and let's not forget the most important thing... Many users don't know how to use OTTD, if you put 16 cargoes on them, you directly kill them.
Maybe 8, more is really complex. In reality, for most users with 5-6 as maximum is enought.
One last thing....
Thanks for all your effort, yours and the rest of developers, without all that immense work in the shadows, OTTD would never have become the big program that is today.
However, the 16 cargoes per industry...
In my opinion, it's unnecessary. It's going to be too complex for everyone and let's not forget the most important thing... Many users don't know how to use OTTD, if you put 16 cargoes on them, you directly kill them.
Maybe 8, more is really complex. In reality, for most users with 5-6 as maximum is enought.
One last thing....
Thanks for all your effort, yours and the rest of developers, without all that immense work in the shadows, OTTD would never have become the big program that is today.
NewGRFs__
City names/Landscape: Naruto | Planets | Lovers | Halloween | Kaijus
Vehicles: Famous Cars | Super Cars | Racing Cars | Cars Cars | Improved M Cars
SilverSurferZzZ has left the building!
City names/Landscape: Naruto | Planets | Lovers | Halloween | Kaijus
Vehicles: Famous Cars | Super Cars | Racing Cars | Cars Cars | Improved M Cars
SilverSurferZzZ has left the building!
Re: 64 cargo types, more inputs and outputs on industries
Oh my word, I had given up hope of this ever happening!
Pete
Pete
Re: 64 cargo types, more inputs and outputs on industries
Good to hear that 64 cargos will be implemented. Will give a greater choice and allow longer cargo chains.
For instance: Could have grain going to the flour mill to create flour (instead of food), the flour can than go to a bakery to produce foods.
Having 16 cargos will work good with Industries such as the Port and Bulk Terminals.
Will allow for Industries that will accept and produce large variety of cargos such as shopping centres, freight terminals, distribution centres, markets to name a few.
The cargo IDs are 0 to 31 at present so I presume they will extend to 63?
Cheers
For instance: Could have grain going to the flour mill to create flour (instead of food), the flour can than go to a bakery to produce foods.
Having 16 cargos will work good with Industries such as the Port and Bulk Terminals.
Will allow for Industries that will accept and produce large variety of cargos such as shopping centres, freight terminals, distribution centres, markets to name a few.
The cargo IDs are 0 to 31 at present so I presume they will extend to 63?
Cheers
Soot Happens
Screenshot Of The Month Winner March 2020
All my projects are GPLv2 License unless stated.
Auz Road Sets: viewtopic.php?f=29&t=87335
Auz Project Releases: viewtopic.php?f=67&t=84725
Auz Trains: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=74193
Auz Industry Sets: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=74471
Auz Objects: viewtopic.php?f=26&t=75657
Auz Bridges: viewtopic.php?f=26&t=75248
Auz Stations: viewtopic.php?f=26&t=76390
Auz Tracks: viewtopic.php?f=26&t=82691
Auz Subway Stations: viewtopic.php?f=26&t=85335
Auz Eyecandy TramTracks: viewtopic.php?t=89908
Screenshot Of The Month Winner March 2020
All my projects are GPLv2 License unless stated.
Auz Road Sets: viewtopic.php?f=29&t=87335
Auz Project Releases: viewtopic.php?f=67&t=84725
Auz Trains: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=74193
Auz Industry Sets: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=74471
Auz Objects: viewtopic.php?f=26&t=75657
Auz Bridges: viewtopic.php?f=26&t=75248
Auz Stations: viewtopic.php?f=26&t=76390
Auz Tracks: viewtopic.php?f=26&t=82691
Auz Subway Stations: viewtopic.php?f=26&t=85335
Auz Eyecandy TramTracks: viewtopic.php?t=89908
- Captain Rand
- Traffic Manager
- Posts: 193
- Joined: 28 Jan 2012 07:35
Re: 64 cargo types, more inputs and outputs on industries
I was thinking exactly the same thing!GarryG wrote:
For instance: Could have grain going to the flour mill to create flour (instead of food), the flour can than go to a bakery to produce foods.
Pete.
There's nothing like a deadline to hone the concentration.
Good manners cost nothing, but earn respect.
" 'Impossible' is not in our vocabulary." Jack Chrichton, Farscape
Good manners cost nothing, but earn respect.
" 'Impossible' is not in our vocabulary." Jack Chrichton, Farscape
Re: 64 cargo types, more inputs and outputs on industries
Just because it's there, it doesn't mean we have to use it all the time: I doubt OpenGFX will be updated to use all 16 in and out for every industry, so people who find this difficult don't need to play with itSilverSurferZzZ wrote:However, the 16 cargoes per industry...
In my opinion, it's unnecessary. It's going to be too complex for everyone
Re: 64 cargo types, more inputs and outputs on industries
I doubt I would use all 16 cargos in one Industry .. but like the idea some Industries can accept more than 3 and produce more than 2 things.
Farms for instance.
A sheep farm be good to produce Sheep, Wool, Wheat and Cereal Crops.
A Dairy farm can produce Milk, Cattle and Vegetables and maybe cereal crops to like corn.
If people put their thinking caps on could think of Industries that could receive more than 3 cargos and produce more than 2.
Cheers
Farms for instance.
A sheep farm be good to produce Sheep, Wool, Wheat and Cereal Crops.
A Dairy farm can produce Milk, Cattle and Vegetables and maybe cereal crops to like corn.
If people put their thinking caps on could think of Industries that could receive more than 3 cargos and produce more than 2.
Cheers
Soot Happens
Screenshot Of The Month Winner March 2020
All my projects are GPLv2 License unless stated.
Auz Road Sets: viewtopic.php?f=29&t=87335
Auz Project Releases: viewtopic.php?f=67&t=84725
Auz Trains: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=74193
Auz Industry Sets: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=74471
Auz Objects: viewtopic.php?f=26&t=75657
Auz Bridges: viewtopic.php?f=26&t=75248
Auz Stations: viewtopic.php?f=26&t=76390
Auz Tracks: viewtopic.php?f=26&t=82691
Auz Subway Stations: viewtopic.php?f=26&t=85335
Auz Eyecandy TramTracks: viewtopic.php?t=89908
Screenshot Of The Month Winner March 2020
All my projects are GPLv2 License unless stated.
Auz Road Sets: viewtopic.php?f=29&t=87335
Auz Project Releases: viewtopic.php?f=67&t=84725
Auz Trains: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=74193
Auz Industry Sets: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=74471
Auz Objects: viewtopic.php?f=26&t=75657
Auz Bridges: viewtopic.php?f=26&t=75248
Auz Stations: viewtopic.php?f=26&t=76390
Auz Tracks: viewtopic.php?f=26&t=82691
Auz Subway Stations: viewtopic.php?f=26&t=85335
Auz Eyecandy TramTracks: viewtopic.php?t=89908
Re: 64 cargo types, more inputs and outputs on industries
People play people like Factorio and go "this is too simple, I want a more complex mod ..."
OpenTTD with how it's usually played isn't all that complex; 16 cargos for one industry would just be messy to handle, but I doubt it'd make the game actually difficult
Anyway, it's nice to have options. Thanks for the work, jfs.
OpenTTD with how it's usually played isn't all that complex; 16 cargos for one industry would just be messy to handle, but I doubt it'd make the game actually difficult
Anyway, it's nice to have options. Thanks for the work, jfs.
Re: 64 cargo types, more inputs and outputs on industries
One particularly interesting application of this would be to make some town houses work like industries and produce and accept various kinds of goods.
An animal shelter producing lifestock and accepting grain, for example.
An animal shelter producing lifestock and accepting grain, for example.
Re: 64 cargo types, more inputs and outputs on industries
That'd be a rail pain as only the nearest industry gets cargo, no? So if you want to cover the entire city you'd need hundreds of road stations ... ^^Expresso wrote:One particularly interesting application of this would be to make some town houses work like industries and produce and accept various kinds of goods.
An animal shelter producing lifestock and accepting grain, for example.
Re: 64 cargo types, more inputs and outputs on industries
64 cargo types is ok, because increasing the limit of 32 cargo types allows for more variety in cargos and industries.
Anyway, I have doubts that allowing more than 4 (input or output) cargo types makes a game more interesting without making things too complex.
Anyway, I have doubts that allowing more than 4 (input or output) cargo types makes a game more interesting without making things too complex.
And cargo distribution overflowing with soooo many destinations...Pyoro wrote:Expresso wrote:
One particularly interesting application of this would be to make some town houses work like industries and produce and accept various kinds of goods.
An animal shelter producing lifestock and accepting grain, for example.
That'd be a rail pain as only the nearest industry gets cargo, no? So if you want to cover the entire city you'd need hundreds of road stations ... ^^
Formerly known as Juanjo
- Emperor Jake
- Tycoon
- Posts: 3431
- Joined: 24 Apr 2007 09:37
- Skype: Discord: Emperor Jake #4106
- Location: Not Actually Japan
- Contact:
Re: 64 cargo types, more inputs and outputs on industries
Just what I was thinking, this could lead to the AngelBob's equivalent for OpenTTDPyoro wrote:People play people like Factorio and go "this is too simple, I want a more complex mod ..."
OpenTTD with how it's usually played isn't all that complex; 16 cargos for one industry would just be messy to handle, but I doubt it'd make the game actually difficult
Anyway, it's nice to have options. Thanks for the work, jfs.
This has so much potential, I might draw up a FIRS-derived industry chain that makes use of these new features.
-
- Tycoon
- Posts: 5950
- Joined: 27 Apr 2005 07:09
- Contact:
Re: 64 cargo types, more inputs and outputs on industries
And why should something like that need 64 cargo types? I´d be surprised if that wouldn´t be already possible now.Captain Rand wrote:I was thinking exactly the same thing!GarryG wrote: Good to hear that 64 cargos will be implemented. [...]
For instance: Could have grain going to the flour mill to create flour (instead of food), the flour can than go to a bakery to produce foods.
regards
Michael
Re: 64 cargo types, more inputs and outputs on industries
This, because there are other industries to implement alongside.michael blunck wrote:And why should something like that need 64 cargo types? I´d be surprised if that wouldn´t be already possible now.Captain Rand wrote:I was thinking exactly the same thing!GarryG wrote: Good to hear that 64 cargos will be implemented. [...]
For instance: Could have grain going to the flour mill to create flour (instead of food), the flour can than go to a bakery to produce foods.
regards
Michael
Re: 64 cargo types, more inputs and outputs on industries
I agree that having 16 cargoes in and 16 out of an industry will be a mess and difficult to play with. The GUI for it will also be really bad, without changes. (What an updated GUI should look like, I don't know.) I doubt there will be any NewGRFs using more than maybe 6 cargoes in/out, but IMO it's better to have a limit you don't scrape against for normal use cases.
I'm attaching my current builds if anyone wants to test it out. I've also included my test GRF that was used to create the screenshot in first post.
Note that this is only the industry changes, not the changes to let town houses also accept 16 cargoes.
I'm attaching my current builds if anyone wants to test it out. I've also included my test GRF that was used to create the screenshot in first post.
Note that this is only the industry changes, not the changes to let town houses also accept 16 cargoes.
- Attachments
-
- OpenTTD-indcargonum-20180730-Win32.zip
- 32 bit indcargonum build for Windows
- (4.99 MiB) Downloaded 130 times
-
- OpenTTD-indcargonum-20180730-Win64.zip
- 64 bit indcargonum build for Windows
- (5.59 MiB) Downloaded 137 times
-
- Tycoon
- Posts: 5950
- Joined: 27 Apr 2005 07:09
- Contact:
Re: 64 cargo types, more inputs and outputs on industries
IIRC, OTTD already allows for 128 industry types per newGRF, and 240 in total.acs121 wrote:This, because there are other industries to implement alongside.mb wrote:And why should something like that need 64 cargo types? [...]GarryG wrote: [...] Could have grain going to the flour mill to create flour (instead of food), the flour can than go to a bakery to produce foods.
regards
Michael
Re: 64 cargo types, more inputs and outputs on industries
Does having 128 industry types mean 128 cargo types?
Re: 64 cargo types, more inputs and outputs on industries
Nah. Going past 64 cargo types is going to be annoying, since they need to be represented in a bitfield, and there's some technical hurdles in extending to fields larger than 64 bit.Expresso wrote:Does having 128 industry types mean 128 cargo types?
With 64 cargo types, I think there is exactly one industry configuration where no industry type shares a produced or accepted cargo with any other: 64 industries produce exactly one cargo type and accept none, and the other 64 industries accept exactly one cargo type and produce none. Anything else and you need to have multiple industries producing and/or accepting each cargo.
Re: 64 cargo types, more inputs and outputs on industries
I just pop in and want to say to devs what cool job are You doing here
TT-Screenshot Of The Month - 2012 July, winner!
TT-Screenshot Of The Month - 2013 May, winner tie with Purno!
TT-Screenshot Of The Month - 2014 February, winner!
TT-Screenshot Of The Month - 2014 June, winner tie with alluke!
TT-Screenshot Of The Month - 2014 April, winner!
My screen shot thread ---> Have a look
TT-Screenshot Of The Month - 2013 May, winner tie with Purno!
TT-Screenshot Of The Month - 2014 February, winner!
TT-Screenshot Of The Month - 2014 June, winner tie with alluke!
TT-Screenshot Of The Month - 2014 April, winner!
My screen shot thread ---> Have a look
- SilverSurferZzZ
- Route Supervisor
- Posts: 468
- Joined: 29 Oct 2013 23:31
Re: 64 cargo types, more inputs and outputs on industries
Just what I said.Juanjo wrote:Anyway, I have doubts that allowing more than 4 (input or output) cargo types makes a game more interesting without making things too complex.
And so, 16 cargoes for developers is fine; And from that point on, use common sense and not do things too complex.
OTTD is a program for everyone, let's make things right and unhurried.
NewGRFs__
City names/Landscape: Naruto | Planets | Lovers | Halloween | Kaijus
Vehicles: Famous Cars | Super Cars | Racing Cars | Cars Cars | Improved M Cars
SilverSurferZzZ has left the building!
City names/Landscape: Naruto | Planets | Lovers | Halloween | Kaijus
Vehicles: Famous Cars | Super Cars | Racing Cars | Cars Cars | Improved M Cars
SilverSurferZzZ has left the building!
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: Amazon [Bot] and 3 guests